was christ crucified? an interesting debate between deedat and josh...... ( part 1)

* OPENING ARGUMENTS

# Ahmed Deedat

Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen. On the subject of crucifixion, the Muslim is told in no uncertain terms, in the Holy Qur'an, the last and final revelation of God, that they didn't kill Him, nor did they crucify Him. But it was made to appear to them so. And those who dispute therein, are full of doubts. They have no certain knowledge; they only follow conjecture, guesswork. For of a surety, they killed Him not.

Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen. Could anyone have been more explicit, more dogmatic, more uncompromising, in stating a belief than this? The only one who was entitled to say such words is the all-knowing, omniscient Lord of the universe.

The Muslim believes this authoritative statement as the veritable Word of God. And as such, he asks no questions, and he demands no proof. He says, "There are the words of my Lord; I believe, and I affirm." But the Christian responds in the words of our honorable guest. In his book, Josh McDowell with Don Stewart in "Answers to tough Questions" on pages 116 and 117, states the Christian's attitude toward this uncompromising statement of the Muslim. He says, "A major problem with accepting Mohammed's account is that his testimony is 600 years after the event occurred, while the New Testament contains eyewitness, or first hand, testimony of the life and ministry of Jesus Christ."

In a nutshell, the Christian asks how can a man a thousand miles away from the scene of the happening of the crucifixion and 600 years in time away from the happening know what happened in Jerusalem? The Muslim responds that these are the words of God Almighty. And therefore, as such, God knew what had happened. The Christian naturally reasons that, had he accepted this book, the Qur'an, as the Word of God, there would have been no dispute between us. We would all have been Muslims!

We have eyewitness and earwitness accounts of these happenings which are stated for us in the Holy Bible, more especially in the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Now, the implication of this crucifixion is this: it is alleged that Jesus Christ was murdered by the Jews by means of crucifixion 2,000 years ago, And as such, the Jews are guilty of the murder of Jesus Christ. We Muslims are told that they are innocent because Christ was not killed, nor was He crucified, And as such, I am given the [mandate] by the Holy Qur'an to defend the Jews against the Christian charge. I'm going to defend the Jews this afternoon, not because they are my cousins, but simply because justice must he done. We have our points of difference with the Jews - that is a different question altogether. This afternoon, I will try my very best to do justice to my cousins, the Jews.

Now, in this argument, this debate, this dialogue, I am actually the defense counsel for the Jews, and Josh McDowell is the prosecuting counsel. And you, ladies and gentlemen, are the ladies and gentlemen of the jury. I want you to sit back, relax and at the end of this, give judgment to yourself, to your own conscience whether the Jews are guilty or not of the charge as alleged by the Christians.

Now, to get to the point, as the defense counsel for the Jews, I could have had this case against the Jews dismissed in just two minutes - in any court of law, in any civilized country in the world, simply by demanding from the prosecuting counsel the testimonies of these witnesses, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, And when they are presented, in the form of sworn affidavits, as we have them in the gospels, I could say that, in their original, they are not attested. And the proof - you get any authorized King James Version of the Bible, and you'll find each and every affidavit begins: "The Gospel according to St. Matthew, the Gospel according to St. Mark, the Gospel according to St. Luke, the Gospel according to St. John." I'm asking, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, what is this "according ... according ... according"? Do you know what it means? It means Matthew, Mark, Luke and John didn't sign their names. It is only assumed that these are their work. And as such, in any court of law, in any civilized country, they would be thrown out of court in just two minutes.

Not only that, I can have this case dismissed TWICE in two minutes in any court of law in any civilized country. I said twice because one of the testators in the Gospel of St. Mark, chapter 14, verse 50, tells us that at the most critical juncture in the life of Jesus, all His disciples forsook Him, and fled. ALL. If they were not there, the testimony of those who were not there to witness what happened will be thrown out of court. I said, twice in two minutes, in just 120 seconds flat, the case would be over. In any court of law. in any civilized country in the world.

But where is the fun of it? You have come a long way from far and wide, after all the threatening rains. And now, if we say the case is closed and go home, where is the fun of it? To entertain you, I will accept those documents as valid, for the sake of this dialogue, and we are now going to put these witnesses into the box for cross- examination. And I want you to see where the truth lies.

The first witness that I'm going to call, happens to be St. Luke. And St. Luke has been described by Christian authorities as one of the greatest historians. As a historical book, the Gospel of St. Luke is unique. Now, we get St. Luke. chapter 24. verse 36. I'm going to tell you what he has said - what he has written in black and white. He tells us that it was Sunday evening, the first day of the week, when Jesus Christ walked into that upper room, the one in which He had the Last Supper with His disciples. This is three days after His alleged crucifixion. He goes in, and He wishes His disciples, "Peace be unto you." And when He said, "Peace be unto you," His disciples were terrified. Is that true? We're asking you. I would like to ask Him, why were the disciples terrified? Because when one meets his long-lost master, his grandfather, his guru, his Rabbi - we Eastern people embrace one another; we kiss one another. Why should His disciples be terrified? So Luke tells us they were frightened, because they thought He was a spirit.

I'm only quoting what he said. And you can verify in your own Bible at home. They were frightened, they were terrified because they thought He was a spirit. I'm asking Luke, did He look like a spirit? And he says no. I'm asking all the Christians of the world again and again, of every church and denomination, this master of yours, did He look like a spirit? And they all say no. Then I say, why should they think that man is a spirit when He didn't look like one?

And everyone is puzzled - unless Josh can explain. Every Christian is puzzled. Why should they think the man is a spirit when He didn't look like one? I will tell you. The reason is because the disciples of Jesus had heard from hearsay that the Master was hanged on the cross. They had heard, from hearsay, that He had given up the ghost. In other words. His spirit had come out: He had died. They had heard from hearsay that He was dead and buried for three days. All their knowledge was from hearsay, because as I said at the beginning (Mark, chapter 14, verse 50), your other witness says that at the most critical juncture in the life of Jesus all His disciples forsook Him and fled. All! They were not there.

So, all the knowledge being from hearsay, you come across a person who you heard was dead for three days. You assume that He's stinking in His grave. When you see such a person. naturally, you're terrified. So Jesus wants to assure them that He's not what they're thinking. They are thinking that He has come back from the dead. A resurrected, spiritualized body, so He says - I am only quoting what Luke says - He says, "Behold My hands and My feet." Have a look at My hands and My feet, that it is I, Myself. I am the same fellow, man, what's wrong with you? Why are you afraid? He says, "Handle Me and see. Handle Me and see. For a spirit has no flesh and bones, as you see me have."

A spirit: indefinite article "a." A spirit, any spirit, has no flesh and bones, as you see me have. So, if I have flesh and bones, I'm not a spirit: I'm not a ghost: I'm not a spook. I am asking the English man - the one who speaks English as his mother tongue - since I have flesh and bones. I'm not a spirit: I'm not a ghost: I'm not a spook. I say. is that what it means in your language?

I say, you Afrikaner, when a man tells you that, does it mean that he's not what you are thinking? That is, he is not a spirit, he is not a ghost, he is not a spook. And everybody responds "yes." If a man tells you a spirit has no flesh and bones, it means it has no flesh and bones. As you see, I have these things, so I'm not what you're thinking. You are thinking that I was dead, and I have come back from the dead and am resurrected. If a spirit has no flesh and bones, in other words, he's telling you that the body you are seeing is not a metamorphosed body. It is not a translated body; it is not a resurrected body. Because a resurrected body gets spiritualized.

Who says so? My authority is Jesus. You say, "Where?" I say Luke, you look again - chapter 20 in verse 36. What does he say? You see, the Jews were always coming to Him with riddles; they were always asking Him, "Master, shall we pay tribute to Caesar or not? Master, this woman, we found her in the act. What shall we do to her? Master ..." Again and again. Now, they come to Him and they ask Him, it says. "Master," Rabbi in the Hebrew language, "Master, we had a woman among us, and this woman according to a Jewish custom, had seven husbands." You see, according to a Jewish custom, if a brother of a man dies and leaves no offspring. then the man takes his brother's wife to be his own wife. And when he fails the third brother does likewise, and the fourth and the fifth and the sixth, and the seventh.

Seven brothers had this woman as a wife. but there was no problem while on this earth because it was all one by one. Now, they want to know from Him that at the resurrection, in the hereafter, which one is going to have her, because they all had her here. In other words, there will be a war in heaven, because we believe that we will all be resurrected simultaneously. All together. at one time. And these seven brothers wake up at the same time. and they see this woman and every one would say, "My wife! My wife!" and there would be a war in heaven between the brothers for this one woman.

So they want to know from Him which one is going to have her on the other side. Luke. chapter 20, verse 36. Check it out. In answer to that. Jesus said about these resurrected men and women, "Neither shall they die anymore." In other words, "Once they are resurrected, they will be immortalized." This is a mortal body. It needs food, shelter, clothing, sex, rest. Without these things mankind perishes. That body will be an immortalized body. An immortal body, no food, no shelter, no clothing, no sex, no rest. He says neither shall they die anymore. For they are equal unto the angels.

In other words, they will be angel-ized. They will be spiritualized; they will be spiritual creatures; they will be spirits! For they are equal unto angels and the children of God. Such are the children of the resurrection - spirit! He said "A spirit has no flesh and bones, as you see Me have." In other words, "I'm not resurrected." And they believed not for joy and wonders - Luke 24 again. What happened then?

We thought the man was already dead, perhaps stinking in His grave. And they believed not for joy - overjoy - and they wonder what happened? So He says, "Have you any broiled fish and a honeycomb here, meat - something to eat?" And they gave Him a piece of bread and He took it and ate it in their very sight. To prove what? I'm asking ladies and gentlemen of the jury, what was He trying to demonstrate? What? "I am the same fellow, man; I am not what you are thinking, I have not come back from the dead."

This was Sunday evening after the alleged crucifixion.

Let's go back. What happened in the morning? Your other witness, John, chapter 20, verse 1, tells us that it was Sunday morning, the first day of the week, when Mary Magdalene went to the tomb of Jesus. I'm asking John, why did she go there? Or, let's put another of your witnesses on the stand, Mark, chapter 16, verse 1. Mark, tell us - why did Mary go there? And Mark tells us, "She went to anoint Him." Now, the Hebrew word for anoint is 'massahah' from which we get the word messiah in Hebrew and masih in Arabic. The root word for both Arabic and Hebrew is the same. Massahah means to rub, to massage, to anoint.

I'm asking, do Jews massage dead bodies after three days? And the answer is no. I say to you Christians, do you massage dead bodies after three days? Do you? The answer is no. We Muslims are the closest to the Jew in our ceremony of law. Do Muslims massage dead bodies after three days? The answer is no. Then why would they want to go and massage a dead, rotten body after three days? Within three hours, you know that rigor mortis sets in, the hardening of the cells, the rotting of the body, fermentation from within. In three days' time the body is rotten from inside. Such a rotting body when you massage it falls to pieces.

Why would she want to go and massage a dead, rotten body unless she was looking for a live person? You see, according to your witnesses, from only reading, she must have seen signs of life in the limp body as it was being taken down from the cross. She was about the only woman who, with Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus, had given the final rites to the body of Jesus. All his other disciples had forsaken Him and fled. They were not there. So if this woman had seen signs of life, she was not going to shout, "There, He's alive! He's alive!" - to invite a sure death.

Three days later, she goes in, and she wants to anoint Him. And when she reaches the sepulchre, she finds that the stone is removed. The winding sheets are inside. So, she starts to cry. I'm asking, why was the stone removed and why were the winding sheets unwound? Because for a resurrected body you won't have to remove the stone to come out. For the resurrected body, you don't have to unwind the winding sheets to move, This is the need of this physical body. This mortal body. Because a poet tells us, "The stone walls do not a prison make nor iron bars a cage," For the soul, for the spirit, these things do not matter. Iron bars or walls. It's the need of His physical body. Jesus Christ, according to the Scriptures, was watching her from wherever He was, not from heaven, but from this earth.

Because this tomb, if you remember, was privately owned property belonging to Joseph of Arimathea. This very rich, influential disciple had carved out of a rock a big, roomy chamber. Around that chamber was his vegetable garden. Now, don't tell me that this Jew was so generous that he was planting vegetables five miles out of town for other people's sheep and goats to graze upon.

Surely he must have bought his laborers quarters. Or for people who looked after his garden, or perhaps his country home where he went with his family for holidays, on the weekends.

Jesus is there and He watches this woman. He knows who she is and He knows why she's there. And He goes up to her. He finds her crying. So He says, "Woman, why weepest thou? Whom seekest thou?" I'm asking, doesn't He know? Doesn't He know? Why does He ask such a silly question? I'm telling you, this is not a silly question. He's actually pulling her leg, metaphorically. She, supposing Him to be the gardener - I'm only reading you evidence as it is given. She supposed Him to be the gardener - I am asking, why does she suppose He's a gardener? Do resurrected bodies look like gardeners? Do they? I say, why does she suppose He's a gardener? I'm telling you, because He's disguised as a gardener. Why is He disguised as a gardener? I say, because He's afraid of the Jews. Why is He afraid of the Jews? I say, because He didn't die. And He didn't conquer death. If He had died, and if He had conquered death, there's no need to be afraid anymore. Why not? Because the resurrected body can't die twice. Who says so? I say the Bible. What does it say? It says it is ordained unto all men, once to die, and after that, the judgment. You can't die twice.

So, if He had conquered death, there would be no need to be afraid. He's afraid, because He didn't die, So she, supposing Him to be the gardener, says, "Sir, if you have taken Him hence, tell me where have you laid Him to rest?" To relax, to recuperate, not where have you buried Him. "So that I might take him away." I alone .- one woman a frail Jewess. Imagine her carrying away a corpse of 160 pounds, at least, not 200 like me. A muscular carpenter supposed to be a young man in the prime of His life, at least 160 pounds. And another 100 pounds' worth of medicines around Him, John, chapter 19, verse 9. That makes Him 260.

Can you imagine this frail Jewess carrying this bundle of a corpse over 260 pounds, like a bundle of straw, like a super-woman in the American comics? And take Him where? Take Him home? Put Him under a bed - what does she want to do with Him? Does she want to pickle Him? What does she want to do with a rotting body. I ask you?

So Jesus - the joke has gone too far - says, "Mary..." The way He said "Mary," she recognized that this was Jesus. So, she wants to grab Him. I'm asking why. To bite Him? No! To pay respect. We Eastern people do that. She wants to grab Him. So Jesus says, "Touch Me not," I say, why not? Is He a bundle of electricity, a dynamo, that if she touches Him she will get electrocuted? Tell me, why not? I say because it hurts, You give me another reason why not, "Touch Me not for I am not yet ascended unto My Father." Is she blind? Can't she see the man is standing there beside her? What does He mean by "I'm not gone up" when He is here? He said, "I am not yet ascended unto My Father." In the language of the Jew, in the idiom of the Jew. He's saying, "I am not dead yet."

The problem arises: who moved the stone? How could she get to Him; who moved the stone? And the Christians are writing books upon books. One is Frank Morrison, a rationalist lawyer, He writes a book of 192 pages and he gives six hypotheses, At the end of the 192 pages, when you are finished, you still haven't got the answer. Who moved the stone? And they're writing books upon books: who moved the stone? I can't understand why you can't see the very obvious. Why don't you read your books: These gospels, you have it in black and white in your own mother tongue. This is an anomaly that you read this book in your own mother tongue.

The Englishman in English, the Afrikaner in Afrikaans the Zulu in Zulu. Every language group has got the book in their own language. And each and every one is made to understand the exact opposite of what he is reading. Exact opposite. Not just merely misunderstanding.

I want you to prove me wrong. I'm telling you ... I'm only quoting word for word exactly as your witnesses have said it. Preserved it for us in black and white. I'm not attributing motives to them. I'm not saying that they are dishonest witnesses. I'm telling you. Please read this book of yours once more. Remove the blinders, and read it again. And tell me where I'm not understanding your language. You Englishmen, or you Afrikaners, you Zulu. You come back to me and if you feel that at the end of the talk. our honored visitor has not done justice to the subject, you call me - to your Kingdom Halls or to your school hall or anywhere you want to discuss it further with me. I am prepared to come.

Who moved the stone? I'm asking. It's very simple - they're talking about 20 men required. It is so huge, it needed a superman from America to move it. One and a half to two tons. I'm telling you, please read Mark and Matthew and he tells you that Joseph of Arimathea alone, put the stone into place. One man - alone. One man! If one man can put it into place, why can't two persons remove it, I ask you?

Now, all those happenings - you know that this was prophesied. It was ordained. And all the stories about what happened afterward - I'm telling you that Jesus Christ had given you a clear cut indication of what was going to happen. And that's also preserved in black and white in your testimony in the Gospel of St. Matthew, another of your witnesses, chapter 12. verses 38. 39 and 40. The Jews come again to Jesus. with a new request.

Now they say. "Master, we would have a sign of Thee." We want You to show a miracle to convince us that You are the Messiah we are waiting for. You know, something supernatural like walking on the water, or flying in the air like a bird. Do something, man, then we will be convinced that You are a man of God, the Messiah we are waiting for.

So Jesus answers them. He says, "An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign. But there shall be no sign given unto it, except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the belly of the earth." The only sign He was prepared to give them was the sign of Jonah. He has put all his eggs in one basket. He didn't say, "You know blind Bartimaeus, I healed him. You know that woman with issues who had been bleeding for years. She touched Me and she was healed. You know, I fed five thou- sand people with a few pieces of fish and a few pieces of bread. You see that fig tree. I dried it up from its very roots." Nothing of the kind. "This is the only sign I will give you, the sign of Jonah." I'm asking, what was that sign?

Well, go to the book of Jonah. I brought the book of Jonah for you - one page by God - it is only one page in the whole Bible. This is the book of Jonah. Four short chapters. It won't take you two minutes to read it. It's hard to find the book because, in a thousand pages, to find one page is difficult. But, you don't have to go there. If you went to Sunday school. you will remember what I'm telling you. I'm telling you that Jonah was sent to the Ninevites. You know, God Almighty told him, "Go to Nineveh," a city of 100,000 people. He was to warn them that they must repent in sack-cloth and ashes; they must humble themselves before the Lord. Jonah was despondent because these materialistic people -worldly people - "They will not listen to me. They will make a mockery of what I have to tell them." So instead of going to Nineveh, he goes to Joppa. That's what this one-page book tells you. He went to Joppa and was taken aboard a ship - he was going to Tarshish. You don't have to remember the names.

On the way, there's a storm. And according to the superstitions of these people, anyone who runs away from his master's command, who fails to do his duty, creates a turmoil at sea. So, they begin to question in the boat, who could be responsible for this storm. Jonah realizes that as a prophet of God, he is a soldier of God. And as a soldier of God, he has no right to do things presumptuously on his own. So he says, "Look, I am the guilty party. God Almighty is after my blood. He wants to kill me, so in the process He's sinking the boat, and you innocent people will die. It will be better for you if you take me and you throw me overboard. Because God is really after my blood."

They say, "No, man, you know, you are such a good man. Perhaps you want to commit suicide. We won't help you to do that. We have a system of our own of discovering right from wrong," and that is what they call casting lots. Like heads or tails. So, according to the system of casting lots, Jonah was found to be the guilty man. And so they took him, and they threw him overboard.

Now I'm going to ask you a question. When they threw him overboard. was he dead or was he alive? Now, before you answer. I want you to bear in mind that Jonah had volunteered. He said, "Throw me." And when a man volunteers, you don't have to strangle him before throwing, you don't have to spear him before throwing, you don't have to break his arm or limb before throwing. You agree with me?

The man had volunteered. So when they threw him overboard, what does your common sense say? Was he dead or was he alive? Please, I want your help. Was he dead or was he alive? Alive. You get no prize for that - it was too simple a question. And - astonishingly the Jews say that he was alive, the Christians say he was alive and the Muslims say he was alive. How much nicer it would be if we would agree on every other thing.

We all agree that he was alive when he was thrown into that raging sea. And the storm subsided. Perhaps it was a coincidence. A fish comes and gobbles him. Dead or alive? Was he dead or was he alive? Alive? Thank you very much.

From the fish's belly, according to the book of Jonah, he cries to God for help. Do dead men pray? Do they pray? Dead people, do they pray? No! So he was alive. Three days and three nights the fish takes him around the ocean. Dead or alive? Alive. On the third day, walking on the seashore, I'm asking - dead or alive? Alive. What does Jesus say? He said, "For as Jonah was." Just like Jonah. "For as Jonah was, so shall the Son of Man be," referring to Himself. How was Jonah - dead or alive? Alive. How was Jesus for three days and three nights in the tomb according to the Christian belief? How was He? Dead or alive? Dead.

He was dead according to our belief. In other words, He's unlike Jonah. Can't you see? He says, I shall be like Jonah and you are telling me - there's one thousand two hundred million Christians of the world - that He was unlike Jonah. He said, I will be like Jonah, you say He was unlike Jonah. If I was a Jew, I would not accept Him as my Messiah. I am told in the Qur'an that Jesus was the Messiah. I accept. He was one of the mightiest messengers of God - I accept. I believe in His miraculous birth. I believe that He gave life to the dead by God's permission. And He healed those born blind and the leper by God's permission. But if I was a Jew, according to the sign that He has given, He failed. Jonah is alive - Jesus is dead. They are not alike. I don't know in what language you can make them alike - that they are like one another. So the clever man. you know, the doctor of theology, the professor of religion, he tells me that I don't understand the Bible.

Your Bible, I don't understand. Why don't I understand the Bible? He says, "You see Mr. Deedat, Jesus Christ is emphasizing the time factor." Note, He uses the word "three" four times. For Jonah was three days and three nights. so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights. He uses the word "three" four times.

In other words, He's emphasizing the time factor - not whether He was dead or alive. I'm tellinq you that there is nothing miraculous in a time factor, Whether the man was dead for three minutes or three hours or three weeks, that's not a miracle.

The miracle, if there is one at all, is that you expect a man to be dead and he's not dead. When Jonah was thrown into the sea, we expect him to die. He didn't die, so it's a miracle. A fish comes and gobbles him - he ought to die. He didn't die, so it's a miracle. Three days and three nights of suffocation and heat in the whale's belly, He ought to die: he didn't die. It's a miracle, it's a miracle because you expect a man to die and he didn't die.

When you expect a man to die, and if he dies, what's so miraculous about that? I ask you, what's miraculous about that? If a gunman took a gun and fired six shots into the heart of a man and he dies, is that a miracle? No. But if he laughs it off. if he is still alive and walking with us and if, after the six shots tear his heart to pieces, he laughs: ha ha ha ha --- he's alive. So we say it's a miracle. Can't you see? The miracle is when we expect a man to die and he doesn't die. When the man who is expected to die, dies, it's no miracle.

We expect Jesus also to die. For what He had been through, if He died, there is no miracle. There's no sign. If He didn't die, it's a miracle - can't you see? So He says, "No, no. It is the time factor." Drowning men clutch at straws - drowning women do the same. He says, "No. it's the time factor." I say, did He fulfill that? He says, "Of course, He fulfilled that." I say, how did He fulfill it? Look, it's very easy to make statements. HOW did He fulfill it? I say, watch. When was He crucified, I ask you? The whole Christian world says on Good Friday. Britain, France, Germany. America, Lesotho. Zambia - in South Africa we have a public holiday - every Christian nation commemorates Good Friday. I am asking, what makes Good Friday good?

So the Christian says, "Christ died for our sins, That makes it good." So He was crucified on the Good Friday. He says, yes. Yes. I say, when was He crucified - morning or afternoon? So the Christian says in the afternoon. How long was He on the cross? Some say three hours, some say six hours. I say, I am not going to argue with you. Whatever you say, I accept. You know, when we read the Scriptures, they tell us that when they wanted to crucify Jesus, they were in a hurry. And they were in such a hurry that Josh tells us in his book, The Resurrection Factor, that within some 12 hours, there were six separate trials. Six trials He went through.

These things only happen in films. These sort of things - six trials in 12 hours from midnight to the next morning and on, only take place on films. But I believe whatever you tell me. Whatever you tell me, I accept. So the Jews were in a hurry to put Him up on the cross. Do you know why? Because of the general public. Jesus was a Jew. The general public loved Him. The man had healed the blind and the lepers and the sick and had raised the dead. He had fed so many thousands of people with bread and fish. He was a hero, and if they discovered - the general public - that their hero's life was in danger, there would have been a riot.

So, they had a midnight trial. Early in the morning they took Him to Pilate. Pilate says, "He is not my kettle of fish - take Him to Herod." Herod says, "I'm not interested - take Him back to Pilate. And hurry, hurry, hurry." And they held six trials within 12 hours. Six. As if they had nothing else to do, but I believe what you tell me.

They succeeded in putting Him up on the cross, according to your witnesses. According to your witnesses. But as much as they were in a hurry to put Him up, they were in a hurry to bring Him down. You know why? Because at sunset on Friday, at six o'clock, the Sabbath starts. You see, the Jews count the days, night and day, night and day. We Muslims count our days, night and day, night and day. Not day and night. We count night and day. Six o'clock, our day begins in the evening.

So, before sunset, the body must come down because they were told in the book of Deuteronomy that they must see to it that nobody is hanging on the tree on the Sabbath day. "That thy land be not defiled which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance." So quickly, quickly, they brought the body down and they gave Him a burial bath, and they put a hundred pounds of medicine around Him. And they put Him into the sepulchre. Not a grave - a sepulchre. A big, roomy chamber above ground. So it's already evening. From three o'clock in the afternoon, for whatever you do, the details are given in Josh's book. Burial baths normally take more than an hour. You read the details about how the Jew give a burial bath to the dead. That takes more than an hour itself. But let's say they succeeded in doing all these things in a hurry, hurry. You know they were in a hurry. Six trials in 12 hours. Now they put Him into the sepulchre.

By the time they put Him in, it's already evening. So watch - watch my fingers. Friday night He's supposed to be in the grave. Watch my finger. Saturday day, He still is supposed to be in the grave. Am I right? Saturday night, He still is supposed to be in the grave. But Sunday morning, the first day of the week, when Mary Magdalene goes to the tomb, the tomb was empty.

That's what your witnesses say. I am asking - how many days and how many nights? You remember, I said, supposed, supposed, supposed... You know why? Because the Bible doesn't say actually when He came out. He could have come out Friday night. The Bible doesn't say how He came. So, Friday night, Saturday day, Saturday night. I'm asking, how many days and how many nights? Please, if you can see, if your eyes are not defective, tell me how many? How many do you see? Right! Two nights and a day. Look at this. Is it the same as He said, for as Jonah was three days and three nights, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights? Three and three. Look at this: two and one. Please tell me now it means the same thing.

I want to know what you are reading. I want to know what you are reading in your own book! The man is telling you that what is going to happen will be like Jonah. And the sign of Jonah is a miracle. And the only miracle you can attribute to this man, Jonah, is that we expected him to die and he didn't die. Jesus - we expect Him also to die. If He died, it is not a sign. If He didn't die, it is a sign.

Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. Can you see, the people have been programmed. We all get programmed from childhood. When I went to America, and spoke at the University in San Francisco, I said you people are brainwashed. I told them, "You are brainwashed." Of course, I could afford to talk to them - the American will take it. He is the almighty. You know, great guy. He can take it. So I said, "You people are brainwashed." So one American, a professor, interjected, "No, not brainwashed - programmed." I said, "I beg your pardon - programmed." So, Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen, I hope, by the time this meeting is over, you will be re-programmed into reading the book as it is, and not as you are made to understand.

Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen.